LineupIdeas Around Improving Car Camping By Pickathon . 2012-02-28 . (53) comments
The feedback from last year made it clear to us that car camping patrons had experienced issues related to finding places to camp even though no additional car camping passes were allocated vs. the year before.
Our best analysis of the issue was that two things happened:
The first was that campsites became a bit grander in their setup than previous years and the second was that some tents were added to car campsites who were not supposed to be there.
To help resolve this issue Pickathon will include two tent stickers with each car camping pass. Every tent will need to have a visible sticker to camp in the car camping area.
Besides this simple proposal we have two additional options that aim to keep the same groups camping together while helping reduce the congestion we ran into last year.
We want your feedback on to let us know which one you prefer.
Option#1 - Camp with your car (same as last year) but sell one third less car camping passes.
We sold around 150 car camping passes last year and we would cut this down by a third to 100 (priced at $85).
Plusses: Makes more space allowing similar behavior as last year.
Minuses: A bunch of folks would be excluded who were included last year.
Option#2 - Create two passes Camp near your car and Camp In Your Car.
The idea is to move all cars that people are not sleeping in to the first row of the overflow lot adjacent to the car camping (see location in blog picture indicated by "Camp Near Your Car Parking"), which is close as a car could be without being in the car camping area. We would still allow a small number of passes for folks who have camper type vans, but the idea is to make space by removing the cars.
This would effectively be done by breaking the 150 available car camping passes into two types. The first would be a "camp near your car" pass (around 100 passes priced at $80) and the second would be a camp in your car pass (around 50 passes priced at $100 for all three days).
The first row of the overflow would be reserved for only "camp near your car" passes, and the limited "camp in your car" passes would still be allowed into the car camping area.
Plusses: By removing ~100 cars from the actual car camping area it would allow the same number of people to camp as last year. Less car traffic will also make the area more pedestrian friendly overall.
Minuses: You would have to walk a short distance to your car in the first row of the weekend overflow lot (see location in blog picture indicated by green text "Camp Near Your Car Parking").
We'd love to now hear from you to understand your opinion on what Option we should do.
Pickathon
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Our best analysis of the issue was that two things happened:
The first was that campsites became a bit grander in their setup than previous years and the second was that some tents were added to car campsites who were not supposed to be there.
To help resolve this issue Pickathon will include two tent stickers with each car camping pass. Every tent will need to have a visible sticker to camp in the car camping area.
Besides this simple proposal we have two additional options that aim to keep the same groups camping together while helping reduce the congestion we ran into last year.
We want your feedback on to let us know which one you prefer.
Option#1 - Camp with your car (same as last year) but sell one third less car camping passes.
We sold around 150 car camping passes last year and we would cut this down by a third to 100 (priced at $85).
Plusses: Makes more space allowing similar behavior as last year.
Minuses: A bunch of folks would be excluded who were included last year.
Option#2 - Create two passes Camp near your car and Camp In Your Car.
The idea is to move all cars that people are not sleeping in to the first row of the overflow lot adjacent to the car camping (see location in blog picture indicated by "Camp Near Your Car Parking"), which is close as a car could be without being in the car camping area. We would still allow a small number of passes for folks who have camper type vans, but the idea is to make space by removing the cars.
This would effectively be done by breaking the 150 available car camping passes into two types. The first would be a "camp near your car" pass (around 100 passes priced at $80) and the second would be a camp in your car pass (around 50 passes priced at $100 for all three days).
The first row of the overflow would be reserved for only "camp near your car" passes, and the limited "camp in your car" passes would still be allowed into the car camping area.
Plusses: By removing ~100 cars from the actual car camping area it would allow the same number of people to camp as last year. Less car traffic will also make the area more pedestrian friendly overall.
Minuses: You would have to walk a short distance to your car in the first row of the weekend overflow lot (see location in blog picture indicated by green text "Camp Near Your Car Parking").
We'd love to now hear from you to understand your opinion on what Option we should do.
Pickathon
Photo:
Newer >>
2012 Lineup, New Website, and Tickets! << Older:
2012 Lineup Announcement + Ticket On-Sale coming March 6
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2012-03-07 12:05:25
Option #2, but like others we found that rather too many people had walled off exclusive zones for friends and family. This seemed to be especially true in the Disabled Camping area where we were. What seemed to happening was that it wasn't just the family of the disabled person but their friends too. This meant that other families with legitimate claims to be camping in that area were struggling to find space.
2012-03-06 12:44:12
Just a clarification. Here you say the camp in your car pass includes 2 tent passes but in the FAQ at the bottom of the ticket purchase page it says 1 which should I count on? Thanks!
2012-03-06 08:40:11
option #2 rules!
2012-03-06 08:37:22
tst
2012-03-02 22:09:07
PICKATHON
Howdy,
Just to be clear the ticket news did go out to all of the folks who signed up through the email list on our website. We hope that some mails didn't get stuck in a junk email folder as many folks did buy their tickets by clicking straight from the email.
If this happened to you please enter (re-enter) your email in our website email list and this will help at least eliminate the possibility that we did not have it correctly.
Overall, car camping is such a small percentage of our camping passes, and this year, although we sold the number we sold last year (since we went with option #2), it just went fast.
After it was all said and done we ended up with exactly 8 left over camp near your car passes and we will at some point release these but that will not help you if you wanted to camp in your car.
Also, even if you missed out on car camping, remember there is ~60 acres of beautiful camping in the woods. This experience is one of the more unique and special aspects of Pendarvis Farm and it is the first choice for many.
Next round of tickets will go on sale on March 6th.
Pickathon
2012-03-02 11:20:02
wow, was really expecting to hear via email that tix were being released. not just via twitter & facebook (that many people check in that continuously there?!) we have camped in our vw bus for 4 years & are super sad that we won't be able to do that this year. saw some other folks asking, will a few more be released? bewildered in san franciso...
2012-03-02 10:09:12
I just checked on-line and all of the 'camp IN your car' tickets are sold out. Will more be released?
2012-03-02 09:21:05
Last year we had our two tents set up on Thursday morning and on Friday when we returned, they had been moved and a group of people from Seattle had taken tons of room up with three outdoor shelters and a bunch of tents. They only had two cars. I mentioned that the tents had been moved but of course no one had any knowledge of that. As far as the large roped off areas are concerned, there needs to probably be some intervention done on Friday morning to keep the situation fair. I personally am moving to the woods this year as it seems a better option.
2012-03-01 23:05:21
PICKATHON
Howdy
We feel strongly that implementing a tent tag system with either of the two proposed options should create a significant amount of open space in the car camping area over last year (and as a result many more happy campers).
Our hesitation of adopting the additional proposal of roping off sites this year is both logistical and conceptual as we wanted to avoid completely changing the car camping experience.
OK. So now we need a drum roll please...
As we read through all the comments option #2 was the clear favorite and so that is what we will do.
We thank you for caring as well as having such a civil dialogue, and we will bring you our next big festival question we have one.
Pickathon
2012-03-01 22:30:07
I voted for Option 2, but I think that the idea of measuring and marking off spaces is a good one... Given a finite amount of space, it seems a good idea to delineate the boundaries for each spot. I know it would take extra volunteer time though. But it seems like it could be mapped out ahead of time, and could be done with spray paint (like farmers' markets booth spots).
2012-03-01 20:40:02
I like 2012. 02. 29 22:41:30's suggestion about allocated spaces similar to a campground. Though I wonder how we would be able to camp in our van next to pals in tents and a sunshade for zoo of kids. Option 2 with a mix of vans and tents.
2012-03-01 20:24:53
I love you for asking and listening Pickathon! I like the idea of roping off designated spaces for each pass. If there is a large group they will have to buy 2. That seems fair to everyone esp the people who have to work it. We volunteered last year AND bought a car camping with early entry and couldn't find a spot to park in without asking other folks to scoot over a bit. They had 1 car and 8 tents.
2012-03-01 19:57:22
another vote for option 2!!
2012-03-01 12:39:06
maybe no additional car camping passes were allocated last year, but there sure was an increase of actual people.
2012-03-01 12:11:47
Why not extend the car camping area into the overflow parking area?
2012-02-29 23:31:32
Its so awesome that Pickathon organizers ask our opinion about changes to this amazing festival. Super appreciated. About the camping situation, it did feel much more crowded last year than in previous years, even if additional passes weren't sold last year. I heard through the grapevine that volunteers and vendors selected sites early and that some large groups were able to "rope off" large areas early. These factors, in addition to unpermitted tents, contribute to the problem. Perhaps an early accounting for volunteers and vendors prior to early entry, sectioning off camping areas for vendors and volunteers separate from the paying customers would help. Also, keeping an eye on the size of camping area that large groups set up in advance would help. Groups should be "allowed" a larger per person camping area that others. That said, Pickathon is the best camping - music festival experience I've had. The honey pots are cleaned regularly and are well stocked and fresh drinking water is readily available. Thanks Pickathon!
2012-02-29 23:23:28
I'm in favor of the idea of marking the spaces. Clearly the fair way to go. I will be planning to car camp this year with my two young grandkids one of whom will be needing naps. I can only imagine arriving on Friday and finding that although we paid for a space there was no place for us would put a serious dent in our week-end. I support option 2 AND marked spaces with enforcement.
2012-02-29 22:59:03
Thanks for your consideration, Pickathon! We've camped in our van (on and off) for the last six years, but last year was rough. Folks around us created entire civilizations! I understand the desire to set up a home base, but there was a lot of unnecessary and negative property disputes last year. Option #2 sounds like a step in the right direction. Thanks!
2012-02-29 22:57:04
Option #2 seems reasonable, but it was a real buzzkill to pay for early entry to come in on Thursday, right when the gates opened, and found that it was already pretty full, and it was clear that the gates had been opened for a long time already. Also, some folks are allowed in on Tuesday or Wednesday and had roped off substantial areas for their friends to join them later. I like the idea of maybe allotting space to paying ticket holders, so they don't come in finding there's no room for them, even though they paid for a spot.
2012-02-29 22:41:30
Here's a thought. Have you considered measuring out and marking off the 150 car camping spots ahead of time. Some stakes, rope, a simple square footage survey of the car camping area and some math would be all you would need. When folks roll in for the weekend they would just pick a spot like any regular campground. People could cram as many tents as they needed into their designated space and if someone wanted more room for tents and such maybe give them the option to park in the "camp near your car parking". Giving everyone roughly the same amount of camping space then letting them do with that space what they please seems like it would be fair for everybody and the easiest option to enforce. If you really wanted to be ambitious you could make a map of the spots and have folks reserve their chosen spot when they purchase their car camping pass. Just like booking at a National Park. Might be too late for that this year but there is always next year. Hope my crazy idea can be of some help. I can't wait for PICKATHON!!!!
2012-02-29 22:13:31
Option 2, please. Looking forward to it.
2012-02-29 18:49:03
I prefer option 2. Last year we bought a car camping pass and did not get a camping spot or a refund. Thank you for acknowledging this issue and working to resolve it.
2012-02-29 14:44:22
PICKATHON
Howdy,
We want to stress that the spirit of the proposed options is to not radically change the campsite setup for patrons who buy car passes, but instead just create more space to make it work out with less congestion and conflict (See our comments above on shade tents as we do not currently plan to count these as a tent tag).
The idea of using a tent tags vs. a sticker is a great one and is likely something we will plan on doing.
Pickathon
2012-02-29 14:08:58
yes, we also create a shade-tent communal area in our car camping spot and would also like to know if those would be excluded from requiring a tent sticker or would require one. (Also, please consider a tent tag vs a tent sticker. no way stickers will stay on tents in the dust/heat)
2012-02-29 13:47:22
kaliuma@hevanet.com
Question: We sleep in our van, but erect an 8 X 10 shade tent to hang out under. There seem to be a lot of shade tents in general. Where do a van and a shade tent fit into the scheme? Thanks for continuing to make Pickathon the best festival in the world!
2012-02-29 12:35:32
PICKATHON
Howdy,
We thought it might be useful to weigh in on some of your comments as this thread continues to develop.
The idea behind the tent sticker is to indeed enable improved compliance but after careful analysis we also truly believe that relying on an enforcement only policy will not sufficiently solve the problem. People have simply spread out their group sites and many of them are for good reasons (i.e. like sun shades for the kids). Trying to hold some type of hard line on these good reasons (besides tents) will certainly lead to a bad experience for all since context is lost for the volunteers who are charged with this sensitive duty of enforcement.
Another point we understand from your feedback is that we also need to think about how to reasonably price additional tent stickers to larger families that need three tents and one camping car pass, but for obvious reasons this needs to be an exception and not the rule otherwise the same problems will come back again this year.
As usual, we appreciate the great insights everyone brings to the table, and we’re confident that your insights will help us get to the best overall solution.
Pickathon
2012-02-29 12:30:43
I'm not sure either will work. The issue last year seemed to be that people came in early and spread out. If the number of tickets are limited and the car camping stays the same but with better oversight of space use then the problem should be solved.
2012-02-29 11:30:25
honestly i dont like either option. the ugly truth is that car camping needs to be enforced. i have seen people abuse this for the past few years. all the cheaters make it unfair to those who really pay to have the privilege to camp near their car/stuff. i dont want to move my car and nobody wants less car camping passes. thanks for asking pickathon!!!!
2012-02-29 11:23:12
Question: Under option 2 who is allowed to camp in the traditional car camping area? Only folks with camper vans and camp-in-your-car passes or would other folks be allowed to carry their gear in and set up their 2 tents? If so, how much would that cost? The $100, $80, or another price? Also what about sun shelters, will we need a tent sticker for those? Thanks
2012-02-29 10:07:26
I like the sticker idea, and then allow a for purchase of a limited allotment of additional stickers to those families/situations that really need an additional tent.
2012-02-29 09:26:46
It's a no brainer... Option #2!
2012-02-29 08:41:24
Option#2 or #1 is better than last year. More enforcement is needed for sure! We arrived and had no where to park, I would have rather been not sold the ticket. Thanks for caring and trying to make the experience better!
2012-02-28 23:56:36
Shouldn't the reduced amount of weekend tickets sold also reduce the amount of people in general camping? What about making more of the weekend over flow parking available as camping area?
2012-02-28 22:24:24
i personally prefer option 1, but option 2 seems like the friendliest solution.
2012-02-28 21:53:34
I like option #2 with tiered pricing. It enables folks to choose what works best for them without significantly cutting the amount of folks who want to camp with/near cars.
2012-02-28 21:52:10
Option 2. Hopefully would leave more of the flat ground in the car camping area for actually camping rather than cars. Maybe consider having a specific area for vans/etc with more efficient spacing?
2012-02-28 21:46:05
Option 2 for sure
2012-02-28 21:43:06
wegottadance@gmail.com
As a non car camper, I would also like to see more clear walk lanes through carcampingland. It seemed like someone pitched a tent in the middle of a path that was marked on the map last year from the main stage (past the brew crew camp and the port o johns) to the woods. I think a lot of people ended up walking through that camping area. More clear path markers would make us very happy!
2012-02-28 21:42:55
Option #2 sounds like a nice compromise. What about RV's? Will you still be offering a separate RV camping pass? If so, would a VW pop top Westfalia need one of those or do the regular car camping passes cover vehicles like that?
2012-02-28 21:39:01
I don't know what our options are as a large family with small kids who need more than 2 tents, as we all take one car to keep the eco-friendly down but want to camp in the family friendly area. We are happy to pay but do not want to be penalized for being a family
2012-02-28 21:27:34
We would be happy to camp away from our car if it were easier to get to the camp spots. We also noticed quite a few "vendors" all set up in camping when we got there at the campground opening. I don't mind paying more to have my vehicle close but I would not want to exclude more people either. Hopefully you will still have an alter-abled area that can car camp or in the first spots next to the parking area.
2012-02-28 21:25:33
I'm an option #2 guy. As a vendor I camp in my car a lot so I wouldn't mind.. plus Ive always liked building your space around a camper van with tents etc. Folks seem to dig that. If the event continues to grow eastward into the new lot, option 2 makes sense.
2012-02-28 21:19:36
marcl1919@gmail.com
Option 2 please! Thanks
2012-02-28 21:13:15
human
option 1 all way.
2012-02-28 21:10:53
Hmmm, it kinda seems like the point of car camping is to camp in your car. Not buy one pass for several friends to set up tents that don't for those who don't want to walk into the woods. I say option 1!
2012-02-28 21:07:11
gypsygal9@mac.com
Thank you for giving such thoughtful consideration to resolving the problem...I am always so impressed with the integrity and true democracy you show in every aspect of the event. Most grateful. And a vote for option 2....
2012-02-28 21:01:14
lambken2@hotmail.com
I arrived right at entry time last year and when I went to were I liked to camp two venders had roped off huge space for others who went there yet I say if your there and you have your two tents any space should be up for grabs first come first serve. especially for venders who get in before car campers.
2012-02-28 21:01:00
We bought a car camping pass last year, unloaded all our stuff & then parked our car out in one of the lots. We were still super packed in. As much as it sucks, more enforcement is needed for all the extra tents that appeared without buying the pass.
2012-02-28 20:55:36
Option 2!!
2012-02-28 20:52:12
We vote for Option #2. Let's envision a Tent Village rather than camping amidst so many vehicles!
